The still above is form a worthwhile hypothetical discussion about the future of Reform, and one of the reasons it's worth paying close attention to New Culture Forum.
Putting aside the writer's distaste for Reform, which implies the Tories went astray but will be fit and capable to take up the reins of government again, point me to the qualities those remaining Tories possess.
No? Because they had few then and none now. Of those with, most retired, resigned or lost. There are no 'how to run a country' courses and exams. No Party does that and the current incumbents were on 3/10 before and 2/10, see me, today. Not even with irrelevant PPE 2:2s.
So why does Reform not qualify? They'll struggle with the institutions, yes, but so will 2TKS sooner rather than later and the Tories record is dismal. Starmer has managed in 50 days to ostracise the manual workers and pensioners, those that Pete North sneers at or ignores. C2 and D are angry and vastly outnumber those B and C1 of the metro elite inside the M25 who differ greatly to B, C1 beyond. The 'oiks' of Reform, the blue collar entrepreneurs most likely to struggle in 2tiers UK may have time on their hands. The scaffolder doing time has mates and a family. He will emerge with new skills and contacts he never had before. Tommy Robinson or his ilk will recruit him before he is freed.
Forget the Tories, they haven't truly accepted they lost, arrogance lets them think they'll just stroll back in as if nothing had happened.
As for Nigel, no, he cares not for details or the tedium of the green benches. He wants an au fait parliamentarian, Braverman style, he can hand over to and retire with honour. In the meantime he has the likes of Douglas Murray, Matt Goodwin in support, Jordan Peterson of Canada has a strong
youth following and, deliberately agreed at arms length, Tommy Robinson.
Good analysis. Problem is that Reform is the only kid on the block. Just as the role of the Conservative Party was to stop a genuine conservative party emerging on its right flank, Reform now occupies that space. So it's Reform or bust. The platform and structure is there to build on, if Farage and Tice and co want a serious party that will last beyond them. It's doable - democracy, branches, a coherent set of policies, speakers on key subjects and yes, Matt Goodwin in charge of policy, presentation and message. There isn't much time before Reform breaks into factions and the media spotlight moves on. Reform could - should be - acting as the party of opposition.
Give them a few more weeks before we judge. We've had a new government go almost immediately into summer recess and that hasn't helped the situation at all.
That said, I will admit, I feel Reform should have exploded onto the scene, even with just the small number of MPs they got, with a huge amount of zeal to hold Starmer accountable. So far they've been rather meek. But as I say, give them until October before we pass too much judgement.
Thanks as ever Pete - you're right that Farage can't be imitated, a clear case of 'try Imitating This' if I've ever seen one!!
He's always been about the game/show as opposed to the seriousness of doing boring/mechanical things - it was ever thus. What were those UKIP MEPs doing for all those years besides living it up and going round Belgium getting blockbustered?
The chase has always been better than the catch with him...
He was never up for the hard, boring work of serious responsibility and it shows. I'd go further and question whether he really does care about the causes he claims to care about or is merely up for his own personal aggrandizement and status. UKIP was set up to fail without him, the Brexit Party basically ceased to exist on the basis of a couple of flaky concessions off that well known paragon of virtue Boris Johnson.
If he cared about what he claimed to care about he would absolutely want Reform to be something that survivied ad had a conveyor belt of talent coming up for when he calls it a day.
In UKIP that was actively DISCOURAGED as anyone with an IQ above 110 was out. Anyone who tried to give them an intellectual r'aison d'etre was out.
The best indicator of future behaviour is...past behaviour. He's not going to 'suddenly change' and have an 11th hour 'pang of conscience' or whatever.
This article is so similar to the last post and so I will just repeat my comment I made under the last post:
Another hit piece on Reform and in particular, Farage. Yawn........
You are avoiding the real elephant in the room and I don’t mean Islamists, although you correctly call them out. I’m referring to the dark forces behind Starmer, behind the Tories, behind ‘The Blob’ and behind the MSM. It is all coordinated. Our managed decline, mass immigration, gradual replacement of the indigenous British is all deliberate. You must know about the ‘Kalergi Plan’, ‘The Lancaster Plan’ and ‘Agenda 30’?
You obviously know about the WEF, Soros, Blair, Gates etc. These are the people and the reasons the country is going to shit, the people pulling Starmer’s strings. Voting won’t change any of this. Political parties won’t change any of this.
It’s got to be exposed, called out and eventually, overthrown. But I can’t see any way other than civil war. Without that nothing will change and the globalists will win and Britain as we know it will collapse.
Ben Habib's treatment by Farage tells us all we need to know about the current leadership of the party. We are aware that Pete has had contact with Ben before the GE so perhaps there are back channels going around which maybe or not develope into a new philosophy and backbone for future.
Ben Habib failed to capture the imagination of Wellingborough twice. He and Bull got 9000 votes. A Party needs lucky generals. The times, the conditions put an unmemorable young Labour woman in. It looked desperate to fly Habib around to parachute him into the next by election but the conditions are changing already. Farage had to grab the wheel off the ineffective zero seats Tice and hopes to recruit Braverman and her followers. I suspect Ben and David thought it too soon and will be eased back in later. Ben adds depth to Reform, he's instrumental in their manifesto / contract and has said he will remain busy behind the scenes working with the Chairman.
David - some excellent points made. Take a look too at Sir John Glubbs booklet - The fate of empires. It's interesting reading along the lines you describe.
The point I would make - Even if we are in the decline ( which we likely are) might it be better to try and enjoy or enhance the human condition to at least slow the pace or rate of decline?
Brexit was, it tunred out, a half cocked implementation - but when the current atheist socialists get kicked out for incompetence ( the portents are already quite visible) we ought to be ready to offer voters a better form of demos than we've currently got.
Everything tells me that things take a lot longer to wither and die - partly it's inertia but we humans are quite resilient - let's at least offer the next generation a head start in improving their current lot?
Remember, odds on there will be another Ice age in 10-20,000 years - enjoy things whilst we can.
I agree. Excellent points but it must be better to try and not to give up, yet. Pete is doing some great work, IMO. It might come to naught, but there again, it might start something.
THA also might come to naught, but it has prompted a lot of discussions so is getting well known, and is ready, on the shelf, to be used.
I'm a glass half full kinda guy even accepting the decline. Let's enjoy fruits of our labours & encouraging the next generation to have better lives - maybe we've had the best of times ( I'm 65) but I still think the younger generation can have good lives too.
Maybe each of us has to find a niche for ourselves - just that Brexit which essentially fixed an historic anomaly is only half implemented - it needs to be fully implemented to illustrate how wrong the progressive liberal elites have been over the years & that we as a sovereign nation state can still have a major say/input into global affairs.
You’re view appears only correct if you accept the linear timeline, which I don’t, as many nations that still hold to ancient beliefs have rebounded over the millenia and gone through rennaisance. I believe this is possible for any civilisation to go through.
The classic view of entropy, that we all see around us, a slow degrading, is obviously a thing but our modern understanding of philosophy and belief is severely detracted and limits us to view entropy in this pessimistic fashion. Essentially, we have become morons ‘cos we have bowed to entopy, we have fallen for every trick in the book by our overlords whose main project is to align mankind with a demoralising entropy. This enables a nihilistic consumerism run by a Corpocracy. A totalised belief system. It’s not real and neither is our understanding of entropy and probably neither is are understanding of time. Shake that off and anything is possible.
The template for these ‘collapses’ is analysed by mathematical biologist Peter Turchin in a series of books based on Jack Goldstone’s insight in ‘Revolution and Rebellion in the Early Modern World’ that collapses regularly synchronised across Eurasia with agricultural cycles.
I read Turchin’s ‘Historical Dynamics’ and ‘Secular Cycles’ during Lockdown and the interplay of collapsing State finances, disgruntled (and competing incoming) elites and their activating the masses (who can’t do anything without the elites) was (and is) only too visibly being played out right in front of us.
Elites scrabbling for status as patronage collapses, the State debasing currency as declining productivity hits its tax base and the rising number of dependents in the masses and elites explodes the state’s real costs creating a vortex from which it can’t escape and goes bust.
The Tories kick started inflation with lockdown and the Ukraine war, and Labour are embedding it with above inflation pay rises for the non-productive public sector.
It’s not just feeding their client elites and masses that sinks State finances. Another ‘collapse’ historian is Tainton. End cycle government is marked by negative NPV decisions. We have several: from admitting China to the WTO through to Lockdown and Net Zero.
The point about cycles is that a new one starts so now is the time to be thinking about what to do next.
Correct. We are not a democracy. I’m referring to the dark forces behind Starmer, behind the Tories, behind ‘The Blob’ and behind the MSM. It is all coordinated. Our managed decline, mass immigration, gradual replacement of the indigenous British is all deliberate. You must know about the ‘Kalergi Plan’, ‘The Lancaster Plan’ and ‘Agenda 30’?
I hope you know about the WEF, Soros, Blair, Gates etc. These are the people and the reasons the country is going to shit, the people pulling Starmer’s strings. Voting won’t change any of this. Political parties won’t change any of this.
Then you must build your own civilisation. And really there is nothing stopping you but alot of energy, some money and overcoming some difficult hurdles. I have fully accepted that going back to an arable lifestyle, utilising certain modern technologies, is the only way forward.
Those in charge are obviously psychopathic and deranged, they cannot lead men to healthy societies, and the state of progressive societies is enough to throw it all away and start anew. But first we must shake off this horrible demoralising indoctrination of the past 50, 70, 200 years which came from hell, and there we must send it.
Putting aside the writer's distaste for Reform, which implies the Tories went astray but will be fit and capable to take up the reins of government again, point me to the qualities those remaining Tories possess.
No? Because they had few then and none now. Of those with, most retired, resigned or lost. There are no 'how to run a country' courses and exams. No Party does that and the current incumbents were on 3/10 before and 2/10, see me, today. Not even with irrelevant PPE 2:2s.
So why does Reform not qualify? They'll struggle with the institutions, yes, but so will 2TKS sooner rather than later and the Tories record is dismal. Starmer has managed in 50 days to ostracise the manual workers and pensioners, those that Pete North sneers at or ignores. C2 and D are angry and vastly outnumber those B and C1 of the metro elite inside the M25 who differ greatly to B, C1 beyond. The 'oiks' of Reform, the blue collar entrepreneurs most likely to struggle in 2tiers UK may have time on their hands. The scaffolder doing time has mates and a family. He will emerge with new skills and contacts he never had before. Tommy Robinson or his ilk will recruit him before he is freed.
Forget the Tories, they haven't truly accepted they lost, arrogance lets them think they'll just stroll back in as if nothing had happened.
As for Nigel, no, he cares not for details or the tedium of the green benches. He wants an au fait parliamentarian, Braverman style, he can hand over to and retire with honour. In the meantime he has the likes of Douglas Murray, Matt Goodwin in support, Jordan Peterson of Canada has a strong
youth following and, deliberately agreed at arms length, Tommy Robinson.
Good analysis. Problem is that Reform is the only kid on the block. Just as the role of the Conservative Party was to stop a genuine conservative party emerging on its right flank, Reform now occupies that space. So it's Reform or bust. The platform and structure is there to build on, if Farage and Tice and co want a serious party that will last beyond them. It's doable - democracy, branches, a coherent set of policies, speakers on key subjects and yes, Matt Goodwin in charge of policy, presentation and message. There isn't much time before Reform breaks into factions and the media spotlight moves on. Reform could - should be - acting as the party of opposition.
I agree about Goodwin. I'd like to see Douglas Murray somewhere in the mix too.
For Reform to work requires the party to become attractive to political commentators other than ex Tory’s.
Goodwin is an attractive prospect, but attack dogs like Fox (and even the female version in the Lords) are also needed.
Would Farage be interested in more controversial potential MPs?
I doubt it as he does veer towards the ultra traditional types.
Yet without the more extravagant personality’s Reform will fail to gather the necessary support of the public.
Of course, the most significant figure would be TR and his nomination is impossible.
But what if Trump returns to the Whitehouse?
His endorsement of TR would be a game changer - despite any ‘reticence’ of Farage and his financiers.
Give them a few more weeks before we judge. We've had a new government go almost immediately into summer recess and that hasn't helped the situation at all.
That said, I will admit, I feel Reform should have exploded onto the scene, even with just the small number of MPs they got, with a huge amount of zeal to hold Starmer accountable. So far they've been rather meek. But as I say, give them until October before we pass too much judgement.
If we had opted for AV the gains for Reform would not have been small.
Thanks as ever Pete - you're right that Farage can't be imitated, a clear case of 'try Imitating This' if I've ever seen one!!
He's always been about the game/show as opposed to the seriousness of doing boring/mechanical things - it was ever thus. What were those UKIP MEPs doing for all those years besides living it up and going round Belgium getting blockbustered?
The chase has always been better than the catch with him...
He was never up for the hard, boring work of serious responsibility and it shows. I'd go further and question whether he really does care about the causes he claims to care about or is merely up for his own personal aggrandizement and status. UKIP was set up to fail without him, the Brexit Party basically ceased to exist on the basis of a couple of flaky concessions off that well known paragon of virtue Boris Johnson.
If he cared about what he claimed to care about he would absolutely want Reform to be something that survivied ad had a conveyor belt of talent coming up for when he calls it a day.
In UKIP that was actively DISCOURAGED as anyone with an IQ above 110 was out. Anyone who tried to give them an intellectual r'aison d'etre was out.
The best indicator of future behaviour is...past behaviour. He's not going to 'suddenly change' and have an 11th hour 'pang of conscience' or whatever.
This article is so similar to the last post and so I will just repeat my comment I made under the last post:
Another hit piece on Reform and in particular, Farage. Yawn........
You are avoiding the real elephant in the room and I don’t mean Islamists, although you correctly call them out. I’m referring to the dark forces behind Starmer, behind the Tories, behind ‘The Blob’ and behind the MSM. It is all coordinated. Our managed decline, mass immigration, gradual replacement of the indigenous British is all deliberate. You must know about the ‘Kalergi Plan’, ‘The Lancaster Plan’ and ‘Agenda 30’?
You obviously know about the WEF, Soros, Blair, Gates etc. These are the people and the reasons the country is going to shit, the people pulling Starmer’s strings. Voting won’t change any of this. Political parties won’t change any of this.
It’s got to be exposed, called out and eventually, overthrown. But I can’t see any way other than civil war. Without that nothing will change and the globalists will win and Britain as we know it will collapse.
Ben Habib's treatment by Farage tells us all we need to know about the current leadership of the party. We are aware that Pete has had contact with Ben before the GE so perhaps there are back channels going around which maybe or not develope into a new philosophy and backbone for future.
Ben Habib failed to capture the imagination of Wellingborough twice. He and Bull got 9000 votes. A Party needs lucky generals. The times, the conditions put an unmemorable young Labour woman in. It looked desperate to fly Habib around to parachute him into the next by election but the conditions are changing already. Farage had to grab the wheel off the ineffective zero seats Tice and hopes to recruit Braverman and her followers. I suspect Ben and David thought it too soon and will be eased back in later. Ben adds depth to Reform, he's instrumental in their manifesto / contract and has said he will remain busy behind the scenes working with the Chairman.
After Farage there needs to be a merger with other groups such as the SDP.
Good analysis
David - some excellent points made. Take a look too at Sir John Glubbs booklet - The fate of empires. It's interesting reading along the lines you describe.
The point I would make - Even if we are in the decline ( which we likely are) might it be better to try and enjoy or enhance the human condition to at least slow the pace or rate of decline?
Brexit was, it tunred out, a half cocked implementation - but when the current atheist socialists get kicked out for incompetence ( the portents are already quite visible) we ought to be ready to offer voters a better form of demos than we've currently got.
Everything tells me that things take a lot longer to wither and die - partly it's inertia but we humans are quite resilient - let's at least offer the next generation a head start in improving their current lot?
Remember, odds on there will be another Ice age in 10-20,000 years - enjoy things whilst we can.
I agree. Excellent points but it must be better to try and not to give up, yet. Pete is doing some great work, IMO. It might come to naught, but there again, it might start something.
THA also might come to naught, but it has prompted a lot of discussions so is getting well known, and is ready, on the shelf, to be used.
I think you'll enjoy Glubb - it's short & pithy.
I'm a glass half full kinda guy even accepting the decline. Let's enjoy fruits of our labours & encouraging the next generation to have better lives - maybe we've had the best of times ( I'm 65) but I still think the younger generation can have good lives too.
Maybe each of us has to find a niche for ourselves - just that Brexit which essentially fixed an historic anomaly is only half implemented - it needs to be fully implemented to illustrate how wrong the progressive liberal elites have been over the years & that we as a sovereign nation state can still have a major say/input into global affairs.
You’re view appears only correct if you accept the linear timeline, which I don’t, as many nations that still hold to ancient beliefs have rebounded over the millenia and gone through rennaisance. I believe this is possible for any civilisation to go through.
The classic view of entropy, that we all see around us, a slow degrading, is obviously a thing but our modern understanding of philosophy and belief is severely detracted and limits us to view entropy in this pessimistic fashion. Essentially, we have become morons ‘cos we have bowed to entopy, we have fallen for every trick in the book by our overlords whose main project is to align mankind with a demoralising entropy. This enables a nihilistic consumerism run by a Corpocracy. A totalised belief system. It’s not real and neither is our understanding of entropy and probably neither is are understanding of time. Shake that off and anything is possible.
It's sometimes the case that " it's the hope that kills you" .....well, after Arsenal 's performance on Saturday 😚
The template for these ‘collapses’ is analysed by mathematical biologist Peter Turchin in a series of books based on Jack Goldstone’s insight in ‘Revolution and Rebellion in the Early Modern World’ that collapses regularly synchronised across Eurasia with agricultural cycles.
I read Turchin’s ‘Historical Dynamics’ and ‘Secular Cycles’ during Lockdown and the interplay of collapsing State finances, disgruntled (and competing incoming) elites and their activating the masses (who can’t do anything without the elites) was (and is) only too visibly being played out right in front of us.
Elites scrabbling for status as patronage collapses, the State debasing currency as declining productivity hits its tax base and the rising number of dependents in the masses and elites explodes the state’s real costs creating a vortex from which it can’t escape and goes bust.
The Tories kick started inflation with lockdown and the Ukraine war, and Labour are embedding it with above inflation pay rises for the non-productive public sector.
It’s not just feeding their client elites and masses that sinks State finances. Another ‘collapse’ historian is Tainton. End cycle government is marked by negative NPV decisions. We have several: from admitting China to the WTO through to Lockdown and Net Zero.
The point about cycles is that a new one starts so now is the time to be thinking about what to do next.
Correct. We are not a democracy. I’m referring to the dark forces behind Starmer, behind the Tories, behind ‘The Blob’ and behind the MSM. It is all coordinated. Our managed decline, mass immigration, gradual replacement of the indigenous British is all deliberate. You must know about the ‘Kalergi Plan’, ‘The Lancaster Plan’ and ‘Agenda 30’?
I hope you know about the WEF, Soros, Blair, Gates etc. These are the people and the reasons the country is going to shit, the people pulling Starmer’s strings. Voting won’t change any of this. Political parties won’t change any of this.
Then you must build your own civilisation. And really there is nothing stopping you but alot of energy, some money and overcoming some difficult hurdles. I have fully accepted that going back to an arable lifestyle, utilising certain modern technologies, is the only way forward.
Those in charge are obviously psychopathic and deranged, they cannot lead men to healthy societies, and the state of progressive societies is enough to throw it all away and start anew. But first we must shake off this horrible demoralising indoctrination of the past 50, 70, 200 years which came from hell, and there we must send it.