The only reason I ever bothered to critique the alternative right wing parties was in the hope that they would take some of it on board and evolve into something more credible.
Unfortunately the Tory Party is no longer conservative. There is no coming back from the events of the last Johnson Government, when Labour was almost destroyed and they had an 80 seat majority, only to betray their voters with what is termed the “Boris Wave”. They knew what people wanted and yet betrayed them. We both agree that this situation is not going to be resolved democratically.
No right winger would vote Tory because they are not right wing, and why would anything be any different from every other time they have been in power since 1922?
Been saying that since 1922 Tory/Labour flip flop and we are here, just more of the same then Greg, we need a change or our countries are finished not more Tory or more Labour.
Yes, we need a change but that change is not on the horizon. Kemi has improved, IMO, not enough, but what other option is there? It is neither Reform nor Restore.
We are 3 years away from a GE if we last until then and you have already given up? Maybe that's where were at people have just given up and allowing the criminals to rule unhindered?
I think the way they are sharing the HMO's of illegal immigrants "Fairly" in their words could be The Fabian's master stroke for Restore and wake up the Shires but here's hoping.
I stopped reading this article about 10 words in when you called the Tories right wing. Reform may be slop right but at least they’re right and not liars.
Maybe they won’t. We won’t know until they get a chance. However we do know the Tories did nothing except screw up Brexit, introduce gay marriages and put immigration on steroids. If you think that’s a party of the right you need a compass.
I couldn’t care less about gay marriages. Live and let live and it’s harmless and makes people happy so that’s all good. My point is that bringing in gay marriages, buggering up Brexit and ushering in millions of incompatible foreigners over 14 bloody years isn’t exactly a platform to get elected on.
Can I assure you I think the Tories are ghastly and totslly agree the are more Lib Dem than Conservative after all the wanker Cameron boasted he was the heir to Blair.
I have some dear, gay, married friends (men). We were recently discussing the Pride marches. I said (& they agreed) that we have equality for homosexuals in the UK, so why the marches? To quote one of them: so that people all over the world who are persecuted for their homosexuality can see that if they can get here, they will be safe! I decided to not reply. So much for immigration controls.
The genuine gays pass through many safe countries before they get to us.
The pride marches, like the Muslims street prayers, are flaunting their homosexuality and religion which is not called for or needed. Pide marches are quite simply now indecent and they need to clean up their act and our Public Decency Laws need tightening up.
Whatever the options are, we now KNOW that the Tories cannot be trusted and will not deliver what we need, whereas we only SUSPECT it in the case of some of the insurgents.
Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me (actually the Tories have had more than once, but you get the drift); definition of insanity being the repetition of something expecting the outcome to be different; etc.
Nobody with any sense would vote Tory ever again. I was a member for over a decade. You just have to realise they lie about absolutely everything and go from there. They have no intention of enacting any of the things they are promising now. The only way to get change, or indeed force change in the Tories, is to vote Reform in 2028. Its either Reform or the Uniparty in 2028. Now im sure people will say Reform will fail, that may be so but they do deserve a chance. I would vote for a Chimpanzee before i voted Tory again.
Reform is just not capable of forming a government, as Pete has made very clear in his posts, plus some of us have watched its leaders for a long time and have seen of what they are capable - or not.
Me too. People on here have very short memories and incredibly overlook the fact that whatever Badenoch and Lam say the vast majority of backbenchers and constituency parties are really LibDems.
You may be right, in that the Tories are the least bad option. The war on the right may not be such a bad thing especially if Burnham doesn’t call an early election - I don’t think he will dare without a significant lead in the polls. That gives the Tories and the Slopulists time to refine their acts and compete for our votes. The Tories are improving if from a very low base, because of pressure from the right. Reform may improve, but if not, they just need to keep the Tories looking sane and on the right track. We should also have a better idea of who is the better candidate at local level. Some Reform councillors and activists may show promise and have a chance of winning especially in red wall areas, so we should fall in behind them. Another couple of years of socialism and the prospect of a traffic light coalition for the next five years should also concentrate mins.
Night normally follows day - you've got there in the end.
Judging by the comments too you've got or had a fair few slop rightists who need jettisoning from your slipstream.
Like you, I've concluded that the Tories are probably the best/least worst option to form the next government - society has moved on since Tony Blair/Hug me Dave Cameron - but it's where we as a country now stand and it's not what I want but the reality I live in.
Burnham has got off to an easy start - the hard yard's aren't too far away - once the faux smile falls away as it inevitably will, once events start to crucify our Everton supporting PM and once the money boys/ gnomes of Zurich have their say, Life will be much harder sadly for all of us.
I actually think that Badenoch/Lam ( good call @Benjamin Waterhouse) are the future. Sure, they need articulate what they stand for, but it won't be difficult to argue against some of the bitter slopulist right who commentate here.
A "slop rightist" (or member of the "slop right") is a political term used to describe typically online nationalist/ethno-nationalist factions. These factions are heavily reliant on low-quality/low content, viral social media engagement, sometimes using slop AI-generated optics, and populist internet tropes rather than substantive policy.
It's the kind of badly thought out slop ( aka crap) spouted by Farage/Lowe in abundance.
Paul, I'm now 67 - as I've grown older, I've watched society ( in general) growing far more socially liberal ( & decadent) than I personally like - this is especially true of the millennial/gen z's - fact is, these guys/gals have different views/outlooks and especially values ( that I treasure) - it's the reality that exists rather than the one I want.
Given where we are, yes the Tories are more socially liberal than I'd like but they/we're not going back to cold - hard Thatcherism of yesterday. In the round ( and it's a very large round) I still believe ( and I think Pete has worked out) that The Tories ( under Badenoch/Lam) offer people like me the kind of society I'd like to see ( live in ) before I cark it. It's not ideal but then I'm not 21 anymore either.
I get your POV but you will find it easier to win people over if you were a bit less abusive about people on the right who have a different perspective to you. In particular, criticizing others for not having "substantive policy" is a bit rich when you have decided to back a party whose leaders - by your admission - have not articulated what they stand for.
Disagree - the whole point of Pete's piece and much of his recent work is to highlight the slop right thinking ( or lack there of) of Reform and Restore.
Reform had a 2024 party manifesto of c. 27 pages of policy - Farage and Yousuf make it up on the hoof.
The Tories do at least have policies albeit not as right wing as some of us would like.
Well most of the other comments have said exactly what I wanted to say. I also HAD an extremely good local MP, chimed with everything I agreed with, said what needed to be said. Strong on law and order, defence, controlled immigration, and business ( especially export). BUT that means shit-all if the party ploughs on regardless as the uniparty lefty mush that exists. IF what you say is true then insurrection is the only way. Fuck them all, I have had no- one to vote for since Farage's betrayal to get Boris in. A Corbyn disaster could have been what the country needed.
I think you are right but a coalition between the tories and Reform could only happen if the tories on councils stopped voting with the rainbow alliance and supported Reform. The tories would also need to purge all the remoaners and eco nuts .
Could there be a split in labour with blue labour forming a new party.
Reform and the tories could do deals with blue labour against the rainbow alliance. Reform needs a new leader and head office team and sort out in problems in constituency branches before it is fit for government.
The Tories faltered with Cameron, Heir to Blair. The LibDem coalition seems to have cross-pollinated too much.
If it is wishful thinking that Kemi can perform a cleaning of the stables, then it is equally wishful to think the Tories can get their act together and solve the key problems that they might purport to do to get support: immigration, net zero, law and order, welfare spending, defence.
Unfortunately the Tory Party is no longer conservative. There is no coming back from the events of the last Johnson Government, when Labour was almost destroyed and they had an 80 seat majority, only to betray their voters with what is termed the “Boris Wave”. They knew what people wanted and yet betrayed them. We both agree that this situation is not going to be resolved democratically.
No right winger would vote Tory because they are not right wing, and why would anything be any different from every other time they have been in power since 1922?
I thought that Pete made the argument well. The least bad of the parties!
Been saying that since 1922 Tory/Labour flip flop and we are here, just more of the same then Greg, we need a change or our countries are finished not more Tory or more Labour.
Yes, we need a change but that change is not on the horizon. Kemi has improved, IMO, not enough, but what other option is there? It is neither Reform nor Restore.
We are 3 years away from a GE if we last until then and you have already given up? Maybe that's where were at people have just given up and allowing the criminals to rule unhindered?
..and the alternative is what?
I would agree we need a completely realignment of the Right but we aren't there yet.
I think the way they are sharing the HMO's of illegal immigrants "Fairly" in their words could be The Fabian's master stroke for Restore and wake up the Shires but here's hoping.
I stopped reading this article about 10 words in when you called the Tories right wing. Reform may be slop right but at least they’re right and not liars.
Well goodbye then and i hope you can tell your children what you did and not regret it.Im going to remove you now
Well if you expect Reform or Restore, as currently configured, to solve our ingrained problems dream on!
Maybe they won’t. We won’t know until they get a chance. However we do know the Tories did nothing except screw up Brexit, introduce gay marriages and put immigration on steroids. If you think that’s a party of the right you need a compass.
Those are easy words to use but if you mean what you say then you have to be against gay marriages - are you???
I couldn’t care less about gay marriages. Live and let live and it’s harmless and makes people happy so that’s all good. My point is that bringing in gay marriages, buggering up Brexit and ushering in millions of incompatible foreigners over 14 bloody years isn’t exactly a platform to get elected on.
Can I assure you I think the Tories are ghastly and totslly agree the are more Lib Dem than Conservative after all the wanker Cameron boasted he was the heir to Blair.
I have some dear, gay, married friends (men). We were recently discussing the Pride marches. I said (& they agreed) that we have equality for homosexuals in the UK, so why the marches? To quote one of them: so that people all over the world who are persecuted for their homosexuality can see that if they can get here, they will be safe! I decided to not reply. So much for immigration controls.
The genuine gays pass through many safe countries before they get to us.
The pride marches, like the Muslims street prayers, are flaunting their homosexuality and religion which is not called for or needed. Pide marches are quite simply now indecent and they need to clean up their act and our Public Decency Laws need tightening up.
It would take a lot and then wild horses for me to even consider them and they have had my vote at nearly every election.
Whatever the options are, we now KNOW that the Tories cannot be trusted and will not deliver what we need, whereas we only SUSPECT it in the case of some of the insurgents.
Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me (actually the Tories have had more than once, but you get the drift); definition of insanity being the repetition of something expecting the outcome to be different; etc.
True - Never Trust a Tory - well most of them anyway!
Nobody with any sense would vote Tory ever again. I was a member for over a decade. You just have to realise they lie about absolutely everything and go from there. They have no intention of enacting any of the things they are promising now. The only way to get change, or indeed force change in the Tories, is to vote Reform in 2028. Its either Reform or the Uniparty in 2028. Now im sure people will say Reform will fail, that may be so but they do deserve a chance. I would vote for a Chimpanzee before i voted Tory again.
Reform is just not capable of forming a government, as Pete has made very clear in his posts, plus some of us have watched its leaders for a long time and have seen of what they are capable - or not.
Reform don’t have a track record of failure like the Tories and Labour. Pete suffers from sour grapes because his ideas are not welcome.
That’s because they don’t have a track record…
Yes, they don’t have a track record of abject failure, which is exactly what im looking for in a party.
We know what the Tories are like, we saw it for 14 years. Anyone that believes they are the answer is an idiot.
Me too. People on here have very short memories and incredibly overlook the fact that whatever Badenoch and Lam say the vast majority of backbenchers and constituency parties are really LibDems.
Exactly. The One Nation lot are left wing.
How quaint to imagine the country can vote its way out of the problems it has.
That's the only option available to us. Revolution never ever ends well.
I agree. Equally, an option is only an option if it stands any chance of working..
You may be right, in that the Tories are the least bad option. The war on the right may not be such a bad thing especially if Burnham doesn’t call an early election - I don’t think he will dare without a significant lead in the polls. That gives the Tories and the Slopulists time to refine their acts and compete for our votes. The Tories are improving if from a very low base, because of pressure from the right. Reform may improve, but if not, they just need to keep the Tories looking sane and on the right track. We should also have a better idea of who is the better candidate at local level. Some Reform councillors and activists may show promise and have a chance of winning especially in red wall areas, so we should fall in behind them. Another couple of years of socialism and the prospect of a traffic light coalition for the next five years should also concentrate mins.
Night normally follows day - you've got there in the end.
Judging by the comments too you've got or had a fair few slop rightists who need jettisoning from your slipstream.
Like you, I've concluded that the Tories are probably the best/least worst option to form the next government - society has moved on since Tony Blair/Hug me Dave Cameron - but it's where we as a country now stand and it's not what I want but the reality I live in.
Burnham has got off to an easy start - the hard yard's aren't too far away - once the faux smile falls away as it inevitably will, once events start to crucify our Everton supporting PM and once the money boys/ gnomes of Zurich have their say, Life will be much harder sadly for all of us.
I actually think that Badenoch/Lam ( good call @Benjamin Waterhouse) are the future. Sure, they need articulate what they stand for, but it won't be difficult to argue against some of the bitter slopulist right who commentate here.
"slop rightists"
What do you mean by this and what are the characteristics of their comments here which identify them as such?
"Badenoch/Lam ... need [to] articulate what they stand for"
So why are you already expressing support for them? I find that absolutely bizarre.
A "slop rightist" (or member of the "slop right") is a political term used to describe typically online nationalist/ethno-nationalist factions. These factions are heavily reliant on low-quality/low content, viral social media engagement, sometimes using slop AI-generated optics, and populist internet tropes rather than substantive policy.
It's the kind of badly thought out slop ( aka crap) spouted by Farage/Lowe in abundance.
As opposed to the crap spouted by Badenoch and Burnham?
Paul, I'm now 67 - as I've grown older, I've watched society ( in general) growing far more socially liberal ( & decadent) than I personally like - this is especially true of the millennial/gen z's - fact is, these guys/gals have different views/outlooks and especially values ( that I treasure) - it's the reality that exists rather than the one I want.
Given where we are, yes the Tories are more socially liberal than I'd like but they/we're not going back to cold - hard Thatcherism of yesterday. In the round ( and it's a very large round) I still believe ( and I think Pete has worked out) that The Tories ( under Badenoch/Lam) offer people like me the kind of society I'd like to see ( live in ) before I cark it. It's not ideal but then I'm not 21 anymore either.
I get your POV but you will find it easier to win people over if you were a bit less abusive about people on the right who have a different perspective to you. In particular, criticizing others for not having "substantive policy" is a bit rich when you have decided to back a party whose leaders - by your admission - have not articulated what they stand for.
Disagree - the whole point of Pete's piece and much of his recent work is to highlight the slop right thinking ( or lack there of) of Reform and Restore.
Reform had a 2024 party manifesto of c. 27 pages of policy - Farage and Yousuf make it up on the hoof.
The Tories do at least have policies albeit not as right wing as some of us would like.
If Katie Lam was leader, it would be a no brainer.
Why? Her back benchers would still be LibDems.
But instead you return to the even less credible Tories
Isn't 14 years long enough to learn?
Tories? Oh Dear, you really have lost the plot....
Well most of the other comments have said exactly what I wanted to say. I also HAD an extremely good local MP, chimed with everything I agreed with, said what needed to be said. Strong on law and order, defence, controlled immigration, and business ( especially export). BUT that means shit-all if the party ploughs on regardless as the uniparty lefty mush that exists. IF what you say is true then insurrection is the only way. Fuck them all, I have had no- one to vote for since Farage's betrayal to get Boris in. A Corbyn disaster could have been what the country needed.
I think you are right but a coalition between the tories and Reform could only happen if the tories on councils stopped voting with the rainbow alliance and supported Reform. The tories would also need to purge all the remoaners and eco nuts .
Could there be a split in labour with blue labour forming a new party.
Reform and the tories could do deals with blue labour against the rainbow alliance. Reform needs a new leader and head office team and sort out in problems in constituency branches before it is fit for government.
The Tories faltered with Cameron, Heir to Blair. The LibDem coalition seems to have cross-pollinated too much.
If it is wishful thinking that Kemi can perform a cleaning of the stables, then it is equally wishful to think the Tories can get their act together and solve the key problems that they might purport to do to get support: immigration, net zero, law and order, welfare spending, defence.