You have made me consider that the Tories might be rescuable. Your premise is that the other parties behave more stupidly, and that is a distinct possibility.
Badenoch won't be the Tory opposition leader by this Christmas, let alone 2029. She's not capable. She is not serious. She is not electable. Robert Kenrick might do. Sadly, precious few individuals worth anything in Parliament, on any side of the House.
The Tories as the default voting option? Have you lost your mind? Farage looks Prime Ministerial and easily the best option when it comes to Kemi, Ed Davey and certainly Starmer.
I joined the Tories just after Badenoch was elected. The reason? If there is another leadership election then my vote towards Jenrick will count 100 times more in that election than in any general election. If the Tories can be moved to the right of reform then we will start to make progress - but moving them will require a purge of the libs. Best way of purging libs? Outnumber them by having as many people of the right join as possible.
Cometh the hour - cometh the man ( or women) - nature abhors a vacuum.
Voting None of the Above is futile - you just become part of the problem - have a think about what Pete has written, lot's of food for thought. Else, I'll rent you my rusty razor blade - but just make it quick.
I don't normally respond to people who make remarks on ' The Uniparty ' - we all know what it means on paper (& in theory) - the problem is that, in reality, The Uniparty doesn't exist - it's not on any voting ballot and I've yet to read its manifesto or meet its leader.
The Uniparty is a figment of lazy thinkers especially in the SW1 bubble.
Reality suggests it'll be Labour, Tory, Reform or Liberal/SNP - choose your poison carefully but don't be seduced by lazy arsed thinker's.
My argument is that the Tory's have a short period to get its act together - narrative/vision & leadership - in parallel, Labour will continue to plumb the depths and continue with its downward economic spiral - we'll have two choices, possibly even before 2029 - die with Labour, survive another day and trust for better times with the Tories.
Fortunately there isn’t a GE for 4 years as none of the current shower have any indication of being fit to rule. Unfortunately that leaves us with Labour.
As, and when/if, the tories actually spin up some policy that actually addresses the current situation it is possible that they may make me revisit my temptation to abstain but KB’s statements so far will not persuade me.
They may have some bright individuals in the mix unlike Reform but they are also so far a million miles from articulating something that resembles an actual policy platform.
The evidence from Dominic Cummings indicates that eleced politicians have become passengers. The civil service, notably those at the Treasury, dictate government policy and the politicians just make speeches. Liz Truss has also indicated that she didn't realise just how bad things were until she became PM and was promptly ejected for trying to drive government policy.
David Starkey also has a lot to say on this subject. As an absolute minimum any party that wants to change anything will have to purge the senior civil servants, abolish the Supreme Court and pack the House of Lords.
Good to see you hedging your bets. If the Tories switch leaders and recruit the likes of Lowe and Habib and Cummings (in the wings), they will lose their wet caucus and become a serious force on the right and give Reform a run for its money. They can compete for votes and drive the narrative as the left wing narrative runs the country into the ground. Tories can play to their strengths in some areas, Reform in other areas and see what happens.
I’m in almost total agreement with you here, though have a read of Douglas Carswell’s Milestones. A serious conservative government could get more done than we think.
Badenoch will probably go after next May’s Local Election bloodbath. My instinct is that this time the Tories are finished. They were the default alternative. Now, there is a new alternative. However bad Farage is, the wider party, membership and want real
change. Farage won’t be able to perform his usual gatekeeping role.
Can the Tories salvage themselves? Debatable - and with Badenoch behind the wheel they're sleepwalking towards 'minor party' status. Your analysis at the top may be correct in the context of history but there's a sense that history is changing.
Farage has latched onto this like the opportunist he is and it's just a question of when the implosion happens - ghastly though it is we need to appreciate that they are in possession of the ball within the system we have. They're the nominal 'right wing' party and the Tories need to either hope they cannibalise themselves from the inside or can pull a rabbit out of the hat.
Badenoch's not going to produce any magic tricks and her party won't put up with 2-3 years of plunging into Lib Dem-esque obscurity while waiting for Reform to unravel.
Were there an obvious replacement we'd be counting the clock down to her first anniversary in the job, she'd probably have resigned by now.
There have been rumours of Rupert Lowe joining the Tories, will be interesting to see if that happens or he starts something of his own...
The biggest thing in favour of the Tories, in my view are the current government - they are effectively play acting currently with policies unravelling before our very eyes.
The old adage governments don't win elections, they lose them has never been more apt and we're not yet into 1 year with the current lot.
Labour or this watered down version of modern day Socialism really is the Tory parties secret weapon - they, Labour are just not quite clever enough to see it yet.
It's illustrative of the beyond-the-bottom-of-the-barrel low quality of modern British politicians; that for 40 years straight we have all collectively voted for the least-worst option. People didn't vote for Major over Kinnock because of Major's charisma. Blair won in part because the tories had degenerated into a cesspit of hypocrisy ("back to basics", FFS). 'Twas ever thus.
It gets worse today, though. Any politician with so much as an ounce of talent will rapidly collide with the blob, and most likely fail due to obstructionism and lawfare. Liz Truss being the canonical example.
Unpicking Blair's legacy, from the NGOs to PFI to HRA to the rubbing the noses of the right in diversity, is going to take as long as the Gramscian long march to implement them. This was part of the Blair design.
Personally I think the UK's parlous economic state will yield the most efficient resolutions. IMF loans come with tough conditions that the bloated quangocracy probably won't survive. Or so I hope...
Why are reform not ‘serious’. The Tories are not serious about immigration - never have been. 30% will never vote tory or Labour again and 20% are habitual Tories
Lowe will join the Tories and become leader. They will win the next election. Labour will disintegrate and be replaced by the Lib Dems. We will be back to Tories vs Whigs.
For fourteen years the Tories spun the yarn, 'vote for us - we're cr@p but at least we're not as cr@p as Labour'. That ended well for the country. Now Pete is effectively repackaging the same message. There are others who agree. This with a Tory Party that has proportionally more LibDems in parliament than pre-2024. Feel free to rerun the movie. I'm sure the ending will be different this time. No it really, really will.
You have made me consider that the Tories might be rescuable. Your premise is that the other parties behave more stupidly, and that is a distinct possibility.
Badenoch won't be the Tory opposition leader by this Christmas, let alone 2029. She's not capable. She is not serious. She is not electable. Robert Kenrick might do. Sadly, precious few individuals worth anything in Parliament, on any side of the House.
The Tories as the default voting option? Have you lost your mind? Farage looks Prime Ministerial and easily the best option when it comes to Kemi, Ed Davey and certainly Starmer.
I joined the Tories just after Badenoch was elected. The reason? If there is another leadership election then my vote towards Jenrick will count 100 times more in that election than in any general election. If the Tories can be moved to the right of reform then we will start to make progress - but moving them will require a purge of the libs. Best way of purging libs? Outnumber them by having as many people of the right join as possible.
I’m no Reform supporter, ‘when their head stops spinning i hope it faces the front’.
However saying that Reform is pretending to be a serious party pre supposes there is a serious party in Parliament.
I defy you to point to one.
I remember wondering who to vote for at the 2019 election.
Johnson said he would stop immigration from the EU but replace it with migrants from outside the EU.
I ignored him as he had a record of being a crackpot.
Blow me down, the nutter did it. (I’m just glad I didn’t vote for him).
I didn’t vote Uniparty, or Lib Dem, or Green at the last election and at the next election my cross wont hover over any of them.
I just hope there IS a ‘serious’ party to vote for at the next election or we are finished.
Cometh the hour - cometh the man ( or women) - nature abhors a vacuum.
Voting None of the Above is futile - you just become part of the problem - have a think about what Pete has written, lot's of food for thought. Else, I'll rent you my rusty razor blade - but just make it quick.
The communists of China and Russia have elections - though it is under a one party system.
In the west we have a far superior system.
We have different parties - better known as the Uniparty, who we vote for.
Our system allows voters to think they have some semblance of power when they don’t.
Uniparty (Libs/Lab/Torys/SNP/Greens/PC) gives respect to a corrupt system.
No need to cut your throat/wrists when you’ve just voted for Uniparty-they will cut it for you.
Hoping Reform or another party will stop Uniparty, is playing Russian roulette.
If Uniparty win the next election, the country is done.
I don't normally respond to people who make remarks on ' The Uniparty ' - we all know what it means on paper (& in theory) - the problem is that, in reality, The Uniparty doesn't exist - it's not on any voting ballot and I've yet to read its manifesto or meet its leader.
The Uniparty is a figment of lazy thinkers especially in the SW1 bubble.
Reality suggests it'll be Labour, Tory, Reform or Liberal/SNP - choose your poison carefully but don't be seduced by lazy arsed thinker's.
My argument is that the Tory's have a short period to get its act together - narrative/vision & leadership - in parallel, Labour will continue to plumb the depths and continue with its downward economic spiral - we'll have two choices, possibly even before 2029 - die with Labour, survive another day and trust for better times with the Tories.
I may have a short memory due to my age but I think the Tory’s in power said they would reduce immigration but massively increased it instead.
The highest immigration in British history - so let’s vote them in again.
After all they’ll be different this time (seems a familiar refrain).
A lobotomy is preferable to voting for the Uniparty candidates.
At least then ‘you won’t be fooled again’.
I wish you well with your lobotomy - sounds like a good plan - for you.😂
I’m not fooled by them. Not a chance of voting for them.
I just hope that you don’t regret not having the op.
Fortunately there isn’t a GE for 4 years as none of the current shower have any indication of being fit to rule. Unfortunately that leaves us with Labour.
As, and when/if, the tories actually spin up some policy that actually addresses the current situation it is possible that they may make me revisit my temptation to abstain but KB’s statements so far will not persuade me.
They may have some bright individuals in the mix unlike Reform but they are also so far a million miles from articulating something that resembles an actual policy platform.
The evidence from Dominic Cummings indicates that eleced politicians have become passengers. The civil service, notably those at the Treasury, dictate government policy and the politicians just make speeches. Liz Truss has also indicated that she didn't realise just how bad things were until she became PM and was promptly ejected for trying to drive government policy.
David Starkey also has a lot to say on this subject. As an absolute minimum any party that wants to change anything will have to purge the senior civil servants, abolish the Supreme Court and pack the House of Lords.
Good to see you hedging your bets. If the Tories switch leaders and recruit the likes of Lowe and Habib and Cummings (in the wings), they will lose their wet caucus and become a serious force on the right and give Reform a run for its money. They can compete for votes and drive the narrative as the left wing narrative runs the country into the ground. Tories can play to their strengths in some areas, Reform in other areas and see what happens.
I’m in almost total agreement with you here, though have a read of Douglas Carswell’s Milestones. A serious conservative government could get more done than we think.
Good call. Douglas Carswell is always worth reading.
Badenoch will probably go after next May’s Local Election bloodbath. My instinct is that this time the Tories are finished. They were the default alternative. Now, there is a new alternative. However bad Farage is, the wider party, membership and want real
change. Farage won’t be able to perform his usual gatekeeping role.
Can the Tories salvage themselves? Debatable - and with Badenoch behind the wheel they're sleepwalking towards 'minor party' status. Your analysis at the top may be correct in the context of history but there's a sense that history is changing.
Farage has latched onto this like the opportunist he is and it's just a question of when the implosion happens - ghastly though it is we need to appreciate that they are in possession of the ball within the system we have. They're the nominal 'right wing' party and the Tories need to either hope they cannibalise themselves from the inside or can pull a rabbit out of the hat.
Badenoch's not going to produce any magic tricks and her party won't put up with 2-3 years of plunging into Lib Dem-esque obscurity while waiting for Reform to unravel.
Were there an obvious replacement we'd be counting the clock down to her first anniversary in the job, she'd probably have resigned by now.
There have been rumours of Rupert Lowe joining the Tories, will be interesting to see if that happens or he starts something of his own...
The biggest thing in favour of the Tories, in my view are the current government - they are effectively play acting currently with policies unravelling before our very eyes.
The old adage governments don't win elections, they lose them has never been more apt and we're not yet into 1 year with the current lot.
Labour or this watered down version of modern day Socialism really is the Tory parties secret weapon - they, Labour are just not quite clever enough to see it yet.
If Rupert Lowe rejoined Tories? He specifically said he was open to it.
It's illustrative of the beyond-the-bottom-of-the-barrel low quality of modern British politicians; that for 40 years straight we have all collectively voted for the least-worst option. People didn't vote for Major over Kinnock because of Major's charisma. Blair won in part because the tories had degenerated into a cesspit of hypocrisy ("back to basics", FFS). 'Twas ever thus.
It gets worse today, though. Any politician with so much as an ounce of talent will rapidly collide with the blob, and most likely fail due to obstructionism and lawfare. Liz Truss being the canonical example.
Unpicking Blair's legacy, from the NGOs to PFI to HRA to the rubbing the noses of the right in diversity, is going to take as long as the Gramscian long march to implement them. This was part of the Blair design.
Personally I think the UK's parlous economic state will yield the most efficient resolutions. IMF loans come with tough conditions that the bloated quangocracy probably won't survive. Or so I hope...
Why are reform not ‘serious’. The Tories are not serious about immigration - never have been. 30% will never vote tory or Labour again and 20% are habitual Tories
Lowe will join the Tories and become leader. They will win the next election. Labour will disintegrate and be replaced by the Lib Dems. We will be back to Tories vs Whigs.
For fourteen years the Tories spun the yarn, 'vote for us - we're cr@p but at least we're not as cr@p as Labour'. That ended well for the country. Now Pete is effectively repackaging the same message. There are others who agree. This with a Tory Party that has proportionally more LibDems in parliament than pre-2024. Feel free to rerun the movie. I'm sure the ending will be different this time. No it really, really will.