I've said it on Turbulent Times, I'll say it here again, we likely got as good a deal as we were going to get.
Some argue that the TCA is thin gruel - actually, it works quite well, apart from the abortion of the NIP , latterly Windsor Framework.
Given that it took two to tango, I don't think we British thought how hurtful it was to Le project - Brexit it seems humiliated Merkel ( I've a tear in my glass eye).
Arguably, since we've come out formally in Jan 2021, the EU has done very badly - Brexit has been likened to an economic non event by some economists. North Senior had it right on the day of the Referendum in 2016, 10 years to the Day - Brexit merely fixed an historic anomaly - ok, we've yet to make for a better Brexit, but we're out of the decaying wreck that is the EU.
Whilst voting for Brexit myself I actually thought being the big economy in EFTA would be a good place to be.
You might have seen other EU outlying countries join too.
I think we came to the deal we got through shear desperation, fearing we wouldn’t ever actually leave. There’s no doubt most MPs were determined to stop us leaving no matter what and it took Boris, Cummings and others to get over the line.
Likewise. I think most people would have settled for an EFTA type arrangement on the basis that most Brexit voters would have been (a) content with the old EEC and (b) were mainly pissed off with an establishment that didn’t care for them. Cameron could have said “I have lost my case but respect the result and will deliver by joining the EFTA - for now.” I expect he would have remained as PM for another term at least and we would still be in the same EFTA type union, there would be bigger problems to deal with anyway.
Somebody ask on Turbulent Times if the Tories European Research Group (ERG) had ever done any research in Europe to which your father replied:-
"Orwell's newspeak. Research Group means a group which prevents research and promotes ignorance."
To which I replied:-
"A bit like the Home Office should be renamed the Alien Office."
The point of course being the Conservatives, and all MPs for that matter, knew next to nothing about how the EU actually worked with all government departments were wedded to the EU like a tick on a far dog.
As to the HO and FO the Remain Offices would have been better!
Sadly I also knew nothing about how the EU actually worked until I visited the EU parliament, with a group. We saw exactly how it worked, with the MEPs clicking through Commission directives, as fast as they could, and had the opportunity to talk to MEPs. I was horrified.
I read Pete's article and was trying to find a response but decided that as I tend to agree I'll have a cup of tea and continue to potter. Why I'm posting this now is that I just got a Farage / Reform round robin email blaming brexit 'failure' on May and everyone else but himself. The good news is he is going to lead us to a richer happier place on brexit when he gets to be PM No explanation as to how. So usual delusions. He and by default Reform have no answers and take no responsibility they just dish out blame for the division they created. Tedious
The EU is a losing organization. Its share of world trade is plummeting. It is a protectionist club, that is failing to protect its indigenous population. The UK is an important market especially to European car manufacturers. Likewise, the EU is an important market for British automotive components. I believe that the negotiations were not carried out with the interests of all concerned in mind. I believe that the EU tried to make a negative example of the UK -“pour décourager les autres”. It’s just another example of collectivist authoritarianism.
Hindsight is really a wonderful thing.
I've said it on Turbulent Times, I'll say it here again, we likely got as good a deal as we were going to get.
Some argue that the TCA is thin gruel - actually, it works quite well, apart from the abortion of the NIP , latterly Windsor Framework.
Given that it took two to tango, I don't think we British thought how hurtful it was to Le project - Brexit it seems humiliated Merkel ( I've a tear in my glass eye).
Arguably, since we've come out formally in Jan 2021, the EU has done very badly - Brexit has been likened to an economic non event by some economists. North Senior had it right on the day of the Referendum in 2016, 10 years to the Day - Brexit merely fixed an historic anomaly - ok, we've yet to make for a better Brexit, but we're out of the decaying wreck that is the EU.
That in itself is something to celebrate.
Agreed Pete,
Whilst voting for Brexit myself I actually thought being the big economy in EFTA would be a good place to be.
You might have seen other EU outlying countries join too.
I think we came to the deal we got through shear desperation, fearing we wouldn’t ever actually leave. There’s no doubt most MPs were determined to stop us leaving no matter what and it took Boris, Cummings and others to get over the line.
Not ideal but it was backs to the wall.
Likewise. I think most people would have settled for an EFTA type arrangement on the basis that most Brexit voters would have been (a) content with the old EEC and (b) were mainly pissed off with an establishment that didn’t care for them. Cameron could have said “I have lost my case but respect the result and will deliver by joining the EFTA - for now.” I expect he would have remained as PM for another term at least and we would still be in the same EFTA type union, there would be bigger problems to deal with anyway.
Somebody ask on Turbulent Times if the Tories European Research Group (ERG) had ever done any research in Europe to which your father replied:-
"Orwell's newspeak. Research Group means a group which prevents research and promotes ignorance."
To which I replied:-
"A bit like the Home Office should be renamed the Alien Office."
The point of course being the Conservatives, and all MPs for that matter, knew next to nothing about how the EU actually worked with all government departments were wedded to the EU like a tick on a far dog.
As to the HO and FO the Remain Offices would have been better!
Sadly I also knew nothing about how the EU actually worked until I visited the EU parliament, with a group. We saw exactly how it worked, with the MEPs clicking through Commission directives, as fast as they could, and had the opportunity to talk to MEPs. I was horrified.
Also I'm sure you read EU Referendum!
Oh yes, but it didn't exist when I visited.
What year did you visit?
Oh? 1981 was the first time, I think.
A very early bird then!!!
I read Pete's article and was trying to find a response but decided that as I tend to agree I'll have a cup of tea and continue to potter. Why I'm posting this now is that I just got a Farage / Reform round robin email blaming brexit 'failure' on May and everyone else but himself. The good news is he is going to lead us to a richer happier place on brexit when he gets to be PM No explanation as to how. So usual delusions. He and by default Reform have no answers and take no responsibility they just dish out blame for the division they created. Tedious
The EU is a losing organization. Its share of world trade is plummeting. It is a protectionist club, that is failing to protect its indigenous population. The UK is an important market especially to European car manufacturers. Likewise, the EU is an important market for British automotive components. I believe that the negotiations were not carried out with the interests of all concerned in mind. I believe that the EU tried to make a negative example of the UK -“pour décourager les autres”. It’s just another example of collectivist authoritarianism.