I really can't see a full blown civil war breaking out, but the outbursts of rioting and 'direct action' will probably become more frequent and more severe. The real issue here is a majority of people appear not to believe a word that 'the establishment' are telling them and that a form of gaslighting is taking place. Politicians have never been the most trusted of people but it really is somewhere between the toilet and the sewers. There's no coming back from that.
“I..can’t see a flown blown civil war breaking out…”
No one ever can. If you asked people in the 1630’s if they thought about a civil war, they’d have said the same. They were all pissed off with the taxes and ever encroaching tyrannies but they didn’t see coming, what came.
So, it really doesn’t matter what we think, all we can be sure off is the ever encroaching darkness and the inability of any of us to halt it’s approach, just like in the 1630’s. One thing that’s obvious is the large amounts of money that will appear available to anyone forming an opposition, I mean think of the promise of access to all that oil in antarctica for the victors and their investors!
In a low trust fragmented society where central government is weak and unable to apply lawful power (for whatever reason) you end up with clans. Those clans and families control the situation locally. We see this across the middle east and parts of Africa. Who is your money on for structuring themselves like that in the UK? Indigenous people who havent had to think like that for generations or people who have come from societies where thats common? How will that pan out?
You are defeatist. The vast majority are against mass illegal immigration. The Left rabble are a minority, many paid agitators. Lock them up, problem solved.
There is bravado and reality and it is not that we don't need mass deportations but what you have to explain is how exactly this or any government, even Reform UK. are going to execute it.
No waffle just a sensible realistic answer will do?!
That policy or similar tough reception on arrival plus no benefits would likely stop the illegal dinghies but I'm afraid that is not realistic for the 2 million illegals already here as you still the issue of rounding them up and the whole logistics of mass deportations against a sizeable portion of the population and of course the judges set against such a policy.
Change the Government, sack irrational judges, leave the ECHR, repeal traitor Bliar's Human Rights Act, turn any boats back mid-channel, imprison anyone who aids false asylum claims. Simple really.
Wrong. We don't negotiate with the ECHR, we just leave, nothing they can do. We repeal the Human Rights Act, not modify. At mid-channel we simply turn the boats back, deny them entry to our waters, perfectly legal. Any illegals encountered in Britain shipped to Ascension Island or similar. All that we require is politicians with a backbone. That is the hard part. I have worked with politicians. And while we are at it break up ghettos the way Denmark is.
You have to concentrate on those areas that are fully supported by the public at large.
That is terrorists and criminals.
Both have to be removed for public safety reasons and will take some time to deport.
Prisoners can be removed first - other countries take this much more seriously than UK governments.
There will be retaliation but that will strengthen the mood of the public.
At the same time legislation to stop tax payers money going to benefit scrounges will lead to an outflow of opportunist migrants.
That may be less popular but still be supported by the vast majority.
Benefit restrictions will then require tightening to include those migrants who have never worked.
An increase in civil servants investigating benefit fraudsters and enforcement officers will be self financing and partly compensate for the large number of jobs lost to AI.
I would say 'bring it on'. Let's start mass deportations. For sure, the author argues that there will be mass protests and judicial interference. Good! I think that is exactly Donald Trump's strategy: Let these people reveal themselves so we can strike them down later. The alternative of pussyfooting around to avoid conflict will not resolve anything, and meanwhile the problems persist and grow.
Britain is very close to mass civil disobedience bordering on civil war. Look up David Betts on Youtube for an explanation (Professor of War Studies at Kings College London). In fact, he also thinks the process has already started. It might not lead to outright war, but we may quickly resemble the troubles of Northern Ireland or what is happening in Lebanon, he argues.
Britain is deeply screwed (just like most of western Europe) and unless radical action is taken, that is inevitable. This is undoubtedly planned, as Starmer is far too stupid to have any original thoughts and is clearly controlled by somebody. Maybe these powers deliberately want conflict in order to bring about their digital IDs and CBDCs - I strongly suspect this. However, there are more of us than there are of them. Let's have mass protests. I mean a total general strike - everything shuts down and we picket all government offices - for weeks or even months. Remember Ceausescu?
Most right of centre thinking people would like to 'bring it on' but we have to face reality, which is that while of course absolutely essential for our future to mass deport all illegals and other migrants who refuse to integrate, this government or even Reform UK do not have the capability to implement such a policy.
Therefore as Pete suggests we then get serious unrest/civil war from which the current political class are totally discredited and something better takes its place.
I give it 10 years but it is complete folly to believe that before the trouble starts our current lot of politicians can or will implement a programme of mass deportations.
It is not imminent but, after Farage clowns and fails, I could imagine large parts of Bradford turning into 1970s Belfast, with entire areas surrounded by peace walls and security gates and the whites lamenting it from the safety of Harrogate. Speaking to respectable, right-thinking people who I always assumed voted Labour, I have said things like "I want the lot of them imprisoned on the Isle of Skye" and to my surprise not been denounced as a fascist beast. There is beginning to be a constituency for it.
Essentially the state saying ‘we don’t want you here, Go Home’.
The War started when the corruptors opened the gates to the invasive force against the will of the majority. No one said it was gonna be easy, if in enforcing Remigration it leads to civil conflict then that is just the escalation caused by the opposition becoming active in a war that was already already active upon them.
For instance; if the Poles had not formed a resistance to the Wehrmacht upon it’s crossing into Polish territory against the will of the Polish people in 1939, there may not have been any military violence to speak of. The violence errupted when the Polish forces applied an active defence of Poland to the invasive force.
Either way it was a globally recognised legitimate and legal act of the Polish to defend it’s people, law and cultural heritage from a foreign German force who wished to subjugate it to their will, law and culture. And it is also the Englisher’s.
Civil wars need factions, leaders and armies or militias. I can see how riots would happen but I can't see an army or militia that is in opposition to the government forming. Who will lead it? We don't produce wannabe dictators or warlords in this country. The only civil wars we've ever had coalesced around the Lords, not a military figure. We lack what the French call "the man on horseback". There's only been a handful of British great generals who could have parlayed their prestige onto the political stage to become dictators but none of them did...it would have been an anathema for them to have done so. We don't have a deep rooted fascistic culture, our great military leaders have never tried to stage a coup (except one, and we didn't like it) and I don't even think the British public want a system where the vote is done away with. We're an ornery bunch and won't take to a European or South American style absolute leader. When we tire of a prime minister, we vote them out unceremoniously. So I can foresee mass civil unrest but I can't see a civil war or a dictator emerging.
I'm not sure it is unprecedented. It's very much 1970s right now. Also the UK population is unarmed (thanks, Blair) so ordinary civilians following a hypothetical leader who we can't identify in public life and only armed with what's lying around their homes up against the police and armed forces? I don't think so.
It will need to be done through economic means, most of Western Europe is in a dire straight economically. At some point something has got to give, countries can't run on debt indefinitely.
When that happens someone will get the blame.
Will it be the government, migrants or banks? Who knows, but this Labour government is the least likely to wholesale drop net zero, open up the North Sea and revoke DEI nonsense.
IF that happened, UK may suddenly become a place to invest and we may struggle on.
So far I think most comments have missed the point you are making which is because our current political class, and that included Reform UK, will face too much concerted opposition to carry out mass deportations, rending it impossible to implement, then civil war is inevitable.
Unfortunately, civil war, even the total collapse of western civilisation, is just wishful thinking at this point.
The hive-mind is now so pervasive that we are descending, helter-skelter into the brave new world. Malcontents will be increasingly persecuted. Within a few generations heretical thoughts can be evolved out. Too many have bought into the life of pack animals, bleating their virtue for each others' approval, taking no responsibility, preferring to be told what to do, and what to think.
I really can't see a full blown civil war breaking out, but the outbursts of rioting and 'direct action' will probably become more frequent and more severe. The real issue here is a majority of people appear not to believe a word that 'the establishment' are telling them and that a form of gaslighting is taking place. Politicians have never been the most trusted of people but it really is somewhere between the toilet and the sewers. There's no coming back from that.
“I..can’t see a flown blown civil war breaking out…”
No one ever can. If you asked people in the 1630’s if they thought about a civil war, they’d have said the same. They were all pissed off with the taxes and ever encroaching tyrannies but they didn’t see coming, what came.
So, it really doesn’t matter what we think, all we can be sure off is the ever encroaching darkness and the inability of any of us to halt it’s approach, just like in the 1630’s. One thing that’s obvious is the large amounts of money that will appear available to anyone forming an opposition, I mean think of the promise of access to all that oil in antarctica for the victors and their investors!
In a low trust fragmented society where central government is weak and unable to apply lawful power (for whatever reason) you end up with clans. Those clans and families control the situation locally. We see this across the middle east and parts of Africa. Who is your money on for structuring themselves like that in the UK? Indigenous people who havent had to think like that for generations or people who have come from societies where thats common? How will that pan out?
You are defeatist. The vast majority are against mass illegal immigration. The Left rabble are a minority, many paid agitators. Lock them up, problem solved.
There is bravado and reality and it is not that we don't need mass deportations but what you have to explain is how exactly this or any government, even Reform UK. are going to execute it.
No waffle just a sensible realistic answer will do?!
Quite simple really, Put them all on Ascension Island in tents, they will soon be begging to go home.
That policy or similar tough reception on arrival plus no benefits would likely stop the illegal dinghies but I'm afraid that is not realistic for the 2 million illegals already here as you still the issue of rounding them up and the whole logistics of mass deportations against a sizeable portion of the population and of course the judges set against such a policy.
Change the Government, sack irrational judges, leave the ECHR, repeal traitor Bliar's Human Rights Act, turn any boats back mid-channel, imprison anyone who aids false asylum claims. Simple really.
I'm really sorry Paul but all that is just rhetoric and you clearly haven't followed Pete's detailed analysis of the how best to treat the ECHR.
I pretty much guarantee that a Reform UK government will fail to solve our entrenched problems that need brains not brawn to solve.
Yes we should amend a clause or two in the ECHR and HRA but not get bogged down in years of negotiating to withdraw from them both.
There is no international waters in the Channel unlike the Australians had and your idea is simply never going to happen.
Totally agree we should punish any employer employing illegals but I'd heavily fine not imprison,.
After 30 years of failing governments with little to no control on mass migration the solutions are not simple and can not be achieve over night.
Wrong. We don't negotiate with the ECHR, we just leave, nothing they can do. We repeal the Human Rights Act, not modify. At mid-channel we simply turn the boats back, deny them entry to our waters, perfectly legal. Any illegals encountered in Britain shipped to Ascension Island or similar. All that we require is politicians with a backbone. That is the hard part. I have worked with politicians. And while we are at it break up ghettos the way Denmark is.
You have to concentrate on those areas that are fully supported by the public at large.
That is terrorists and criminals.
Both have to be removed for public safety reasons and will take some time to deport.
Prisoners can be removed first - other countries take this much more seriously than UK governments.
There will be retaliation but that will strengthen the mood of the public.
At the same time legislation to stop tax payers money going to benefit scrounges will lead to an outflow of opportunist migrants.
That may be less popular but still be supported by the vast majority.
Benefit restrictions will then require tightening to include those migrants who have never worked.
An increase in civil servants investigating benefit fraudsters and enforcement officers will be self financing and partly compensate for the large number of jobs lost to AI.
I would say 'bring it on'. Let's start mass deportations. For sure, the author argues that there will be mass protests and judicial interference. Good! I think that is exactly Donald Trump's strategy: Let these people reveal themselves so we can strike them down later. The alternative of pussyfooting around to avoid conflict will not resolve anything, and meanwhile the problems persist and grow.
Britain is very close to mass civil disobedience bordering on civil war. Look up David Betts on Youtube for an explanation (Professor of War Studies at Kings College London). In fact, he also thinks the process has already started. It might not lead to outright war, but we may quickly resemble the troubles of Northern Ireland or what is happening in Lebanon, he argues.
Britain is deeply screwed (just like most of western Europe) and unless radical action is taken, that is inevitable. This is undoubtedly planned, as Starmer is far too stupid to have any original thoughts and is clearly controlled by somebody. Maybe these powers deliberately want conflict in order to bring about their digital IDs and CBDCs - I strongly suspect this. However, there are more of us than there are of them. Let's have mass protests. I mean a total general strike - everything shuts down and we picket all government offices - for weeks or even months. Remember Ceausescu?
Most right of centre thinking people would like to 'bring it on' but we have to face reality, which is that while of course absolutely essential for our future to mass deport all illegals and other migrants who refuse to integrate, this government or even Reform UK do not have the capability to implement such a policy.
Therefore as Pete suggests we then get serious unrest/civil war from which the current political class are totally discredited and something better takes its place.
I give it 10 years but it is complete folly to believe that before the trouble starts our current lot of politicians can or will implement a programme of mass deportations.
It only requires a government with a backbone. Which means removing 90% of the uniparty and Libdumbs
no
Once again, an Anglo centric view. Many folk in Wales & Scotland are very unhappy with "the English way", which is all that the rest of us receive.
I am part Scottish, get a brain implant.
May I take a guess at which part?
You must be the product of inbreeding. You have my deepest sympathy.
May I compliment you on your fruitless search for redeeming feature and human personality.
I hope they can find a cure for your affliction. I don't want to see you suffer.
It is not imminent but, after Farage clowns and fails, I could imagine large parts of Bradford turning into 1970s Belfast, with entire areas surrounded by peace walls and security gates and the whites lamenting it from the safety of Harrogate. Speaking to respectable, right-thinking people who I always assumed voted Labour, I have said things like "I want the lot of them imprisoned on the Isle of Skye" and to my surprise not been denounced as a fascist beast. There is beginning to be a constituency for it.
No.
US Homeland Security posted “Remigrate”.
Essentially the state saying ‘we don’t want you here, Go Home’.
The War started when the corruptors opened the gates to the invasive force against the will of the majority. No one said it was gonna be easy, if in enforcing Remigration it leads to civil conflict then that is just the escalation caused by the opposition becoming active in a war that was already already active upon them.
For instance; if the Poles had not formed a resistance to the Wehrmacht upon it’s crossing into Polish territory against the will of the Polish people in 1939, there may not have been any military violence to speak of. The violence errupted when the Polish forces applied an active defence of Poland to the invasive force.
Either way it was a globally recognised legitimate and legal act of the Polish to defend it’s people, law and cultural heritage from a foreign German force who wished to subjugate it to their will, law and culture. And it is also the Englisher’s.
Civil wars need factions, leaders and armies or militias. I can see how riots would happen but I can't see an army or militia that is in opposition to the government forming. Who will lead it? We don't produce wannabe dictators or warlords in this country. The only civil wars we've ever had coalesced around the Lords, not a military figure. We lack what the French call "the man on horseback". There's only been a handful of British great generals who could have parlayed their prestige onto the political stage to become dictators but none of them did...it would have been an anathema for them to have done so. We don't have a deep rooted fascistic culture, our great military leaders have never tried to stage a coup (except one, and we didn't like it) and I don't even think the British public want a system where the vote is done away with. We're an ornery bunch and won't take to a European or South American style absolute leader. When we tire of a prime minister, we vote them out unceremoniously. So I can foresee mass civil unrest but I can't see a civil war or a dictator emerging.
However currently unlikely we are entering unprecedented times.
The French have been talking about a civil war for 10 years.
I'm not sure it is unprecedented. It's very much 1970s right now. Also the UK population is unarmed (thanks, Blair) so ordinary civilians following a hypothetical leader who we can't identify in public life and only armed with what's lying around their homes up against the police and armed forces? I don't think so.
If the eventual outcome is civil war, and nobody can predict the future with certainty, then who knows what may happen?
It is even possible the police and military side with the people?
True, why would they want to shoot their parents and grandparents?
It will need to be done through economic means, most of Western Europe is in a dire straight economically. At some point something has got to give, countries can't run on debt indefinitely.
When that happens someone will get the blame.
Will it be the government, migrants or banks? Who knows, but this Labour government is the least likely to wholesale drop net zero, open up the North Sea and revoke DEI nonsense.
IF that happened, UK may suddenly become a place to invest and we may struggle on.
So far I think most comments have missed the point you are making which is because our current political class, and that included Reform UK, will face too much concerted opposition to carry out mass deportations, rending it impossible to implement, then civil war is inevitable.
Am I right or wrong?
correction - rendering!
Unfortunately, civil war, even the total collapse of western civilisation, is just wishful thinking at this point.
The hive-mind is now so pervasive that we are descending, helter-skelter into the brave new world. Malcontents will be increasingly persecuted. Within a few generations heretical thoughts can be evolved out. Too many have bought into the life of pack animals, bleating their virtue for each others' approval, taking no responsibility, preferring to be told what to do, and what to think.
Cancel TikTok and the like would be a good start.