The point of nationalism is that you value your own culture and in that way value other cultures for their own distinctiveness. You can love your country as you love your family because they are yours, not because they are better (well, maybe a bit) and we respect other people who have the same instincts.
Exactly, the core principles of nationalism taken to their logical conclusion should lead to actual admiration and respect for other cultures where it's due. Admiring independence leaders etc
Thomas Sowell was once asked "how can you get people to stop hating Jews" and Sowell replied "The Jews have to fail at something". It's a lot of resentment and jealousy.
Combination of two factors: A very strong sense of their own distinctive identity and separateness, and 1900-odd years existing as a diaspora without a homeland of their own, a nation-without-a-nation. Lose the first thing, and they just blend into the societies around them and vanish from history like the tribes from the the Northern Kingdom of Israel supposedly did after it fell to the Assyrians. Lose the second, and they're just another country among all the others.
Being a perpetual minority with a strong identity and inter-ethnic solidarity opens them up to scapegoating, resentment, accusations of parasitism etc, which are based on psychological drivers that are fairly universal.
We’re still working that one out. We are naturally conformists and don’t like to be contradicted by a small tribe that says ‘no’ to the prevailing power. We should by now be grateful to the Jews for giving us Jesus and Judaeo-Christianity, the opposite of today’s prevailing ideas.
I've always interpreted it as simple-minded jealousy. On the whole, Jews are a highly successful, mobile people, and their haters tend to be either communist or national socialist losers.
Absolutely spot on! - at the current rate 'the right ' will disappear up its own backside. If you believe 'ethno Nationalism' will take you to El Dorado... don't be surprised when you reach Cleethorpes and run out of petrol.
Well said Pete, I'm still a member of homeland but i understand why some people have backed away due to policy and miscommunication in these spaces. I still want remigration, however I'm not sure what HLP decided or could not be but again im not in charge of policy nor a manager of it.
The British are mostly conservative with a small 'c' by nature.
We want hearth and home, security for the country, freedom to express ourselves, and the chance to live well in pleasant surroundings under a clear sky not marked by chem trails. Oddly, we're not keen on divisive measures and constant denial of reality from politicians.
Why is that so difficult for governments to grasp?
well, a few of us did warn you. Can't think who they might have been...
...being serious I'm glad you got out of that Spergfest before it did you some serious reputational damage. The problem is...
...nationalism attracts a 'type' always has and always will. Just as you know that local chavs will destroy the shiny new youth club, we also know deep down that if my some miracle this 'respectable nationalist' model could suddenly sprout itself (and there are some great moderate nationalists around) the predictable mix of psychos, narcissists and assorted cranks would turn up.
Then they would decide it was not 'ideologically pure' enough for them. Then there's probably a civil war, carnage and a split into factions and splinter parties. The 'purists' on the left are the same.
Look on the bright side, you were too sensible for them, which is a relief...
I still believe there is scope for a "sensible nationalist" party. It is all contingent on coherent ideology and well constructed policy. Had the party understood the importance of that, we might have been able to marginalise the cranks by weight of numbers, but seeing pivotal policy pillars reduced to bullet points without elaboration was my red line. Everything I've seen since persuades me that the antisemitic crankery is not peripheral. It is central to who they are. Even with the best will in the world, there is no correcting that. It was worthwhile though. You have to go deep in to get an accurate reading on them.
Well…given the nature of political parties it’s all about who sensible, moderate nationalists form their coalition with. From the outside looking in it’s a choice between:-
Work slightly to the right of CivNats a la Heritage or who Reform were pretending to be (the issue with them isn’t their civic nationalism it’s the fact they’re fake).
Work to the left of the cranks, weirdos, incels etc who will always turn up in nationalist outfits. Any coherent, sensible policy will be under attack within minutes.
You need a ‘real centre-right’ to line up with, clearly the least worst of those options.
Relief you have left to be honest in the kindest way possible. Who gives a damn about Israel and jews. It's not callous but realistic.
You will never be able to call these 'conspiracy theorists' liars no matter how much you call them 'antisemitic'. You joined a party in England, why the fuck do you expect pandering to Israel and jews? You wouldn't expect Homeland to pander to the West Indian speckled hen would you? No Israeli party panders for the English. Most hate us.
If Homeland were half the party you describe them as, they might actually be the only truly non Zionist party, and thus a great candidate electorally.
You are what is wrong with 'English Nationalism', not it.
"You joined a party in England, why the fuck do you expect pandering to Israel and jews?"
I don't. But at the same time, I do not wish to be in the company of people who are absolutely consumed by hatred of Jews and addled with antisemitic conspiracy theories that lead them to absolutely retarded conclusions about every areas of policy. Since nationalism is a cesspit of antisemitism, I have no interest in it, and it will remain electorally insignificant.
Well that's very picky. Many in Nationalist circles have different views and ideas of many groups, yet if we all had that attitude of 'don't hate this specific group!' we wouldn't get anywhere. You have to just be in it for the greater good. Whether Nationalists hate Buddhists is irrelevant. I'd rather join a group that saves my people and who hates another group than have my people dead and not hating anyone
The problem with the Right, especially the online Right, is that it is filled with cranks and bad faith actors and they have been steering conversations online for years now. Any pretence of the "unite the Right" wishes of 2018-19 are now dead because the cranks, the authoritarians, the antisemites and the murder fantasists killed it. I have personally witnessed the dark tracks these cranks go down to the point that their claims of freedom, liberty and limited government are just lies to cover up what they really want which is authoritarian government by a "strong man leader" (but they won't say who that is) and elimination of the Jews and, like the radical Left, they advocate for "accelerationism" to end Western society so they can rebuild from the ashes. If there is to be a genuine, intelligent Right wing in this country, one that is rooted to a core ethos that isn't authoritarian, then a heck of a lot of gatekeeping the cranks out needs to happen and that is where the current Right fail.
You explain your position well and as you'll know my goals are to build a people's movement around The Harrogate Agenda's six demands and leave political parties, both big and small, new and old, well alone.
Having voted for Labour, Greens, Lib Dem’s, UKIP and wanting to vote for Reform, I was hoping to finally find a party that could warrant my vote.
Now you advise Homeland are more or less anti semites - well a significant proportion.
It doesn’t surprise me.
I suspect a goodly number of high level government/ establishment figures are anti Jewish too.
Nevertheless I was hoping Homeland could emerge as a siren serenading us with an enchanting manifesto.
Not to be I’m sad to say.
Peter, next time you daly with a political party could you make sure Ben Habib and Andrew Bridgen are part of it (yes I know they are both Tory’s by birth but good people nevertheless).
Perhaps if I pray for a good political party to emerge from this mess I’ll be rewarded.
I have the sane views on Israel (I'm a mama bear). I concur with your points on Iran too - the main exporters of global terrorism, terrorising their own citizens too.
My son gave me a white cap for my birthday - Make Britian Great Again.
What does that mean to me:
Free speech
Clean streets
Secure borders
Economic security and good management
A small, if any, budget deficit
An efficient NHS
Respect for tax payers money
Good education
Teaching children pride in themselves and their country
Supporting food security
Ensuring energy security without ruining arable land
Delivering major projects on time and on budget (HS2!)
No potholes
Equal opportunities for all - not just DEI
Competence is a key requirement (except in training roles or graduate entry)
Bursaries for critical skill shortages
Being a responsible global citizen, supporting just cause however not being the dumping ground of the world.
A brilliant piece of writing
A party with Pete North, Rupert Lowe, Ben Habib, Andrew Bridgen, Suella Braverman - I'd join.
The point of nationalism is that you value your own culture and in that way value other cultures for their own distinctiveness. You can love your country as you love your family because they are yours, not because they are better (well, maybe a bit) and we respect other people who have the same instincts.
Exactly, the core principles of nationalism taken to their logical conclusion should lead to actual admiration and respect for other cultures where it's due. Admiring independence leaders etc
I have never, ever understood the whole antisemitism thing.
Why such vitriol to people of the Jewish faith 🤷♂️?
Thomas Sowell was once asked "how can you get people to stop hating Jews" and Sowell replied "The Jews have to fail at something". It's a lot of resentment and jealousy.
I may be wrong on this but I think most Jewish people see the holocaust as a big L.
Our fallen instinct to look for a scapegoat. Eve blamed the snake and Adam blamed Eve.
I’ll grant you that Martin, but why the Jews?
Is it because they, as a tribe, have been around longest?
Jesus Christ was a Jew, and millions of people all over the world revere him.
Combination of two factors: A very strong sense of their own distinctive identity and separateness, and 1900-odd years existing as a diaspora without a homeland of their own, a nation-without-a-nation. Lose the first thing, and they just blend into the societies around them and vanish from history like the tribes from the the Northern Kingdom of Israel supposedly did after it fell to the Assyrians. Lose the second, and they're just another country among all the others.
Being a perpetual minority with a strong identity and inter-ethnic solidarity opens them up to scapegoating, resentment, accusations of parasitism etc, which are based on psychological drivers that are fairly universal.
Well said. That’s perfectly stated.
Thanks
We’re still working that one out. We are naturally conformists and don’t like to be contradicted by a small tribe that says ‘no’ to the prevailing power. We should by now be grateful to the Jews for giving us Jesus and Judaeo-Christianity, the opposite of today’s prevailing ideas.
I guess because the gullible left always support the under dog however corrupt.
I've always interpreted it as simple-minded jealousy. On the whole, Jews are a highly successful, mobile people, and their haters tend to be either communist or national socialist losers.
I like @belowthehorizons interpretation.
He’s quite right, Judaism both modern and ancient has always been racially agnostic.
There are people of every tongue, colour, or gender all over the world who subscribe to this faith.
Kinda makes it even harder to understand why there is so much animosity towards Jews.
Funny old world we live in.
It goes back over 2000 years. Some people seem to be born with it in their genes...
Absolutely spot on! - at the current rate 'the right ' will disappear up its own backside. If you believe 'ethno Nationalism' will take you to El Dorado... don't be surprised when you reach Cleethorpes and run out of petrol.
Pete - at last - you've seen the light & well done for seeing Homeland for what it really is.
Bravura article. Magnificent.
Well said Pete, I'm still a member of homeland but i understand why some people have backed away due to policy and miscommunication in these spaces. I still want remigration, however I'm not sure what HLP decided or could not be but again im not in charge of policy nor a manager of it.
Very well said indeed.
Agree entirely.
The British are mostly conservative with a small 'c' by nature.
We want hearth and home, security for the country, freedom to express ourselves, and the chance to live well in pleasant surroundings under a clear sky not marked by chem trails. Oddly, we're not keen on divisive measures and constant denial of reality from politicians.
Why is that so difficult for governments to grasp?
well, a few of us did warn you. Can't think who they might have been...
...being serious I'm glad you got out of that Spergfest before it did you some serious reputational damage. The problem is...
...nationalism attracts a 'type' always has and always will. Just as you know that local chavs will destroy the shiny new youth club, we also know deep down that if my some miracle this 'respectable nationalist' model could suddenly sprout itself (and there are some great moderate nationalists around) the predictable mix of psychos, narcissists and assorted cranks would turn up.
Then they would decide it was not 'ideologically pure' enough for them. Then there's probably a civil war, carnage and a split into factions and splinter parties. The 'purists' on the left are the same.
Look on the bright side, you were too sensible for them, which is a relief...
I still believe there is scope for a "sensible nationalist" party. It is all contingent on coherent ideology and well constructed policy. Had the party understood the importance of that, we might have been able to marginalise the cranks by weight of numbers, but seeing pivotal policy pillars reduced to bullet points without elaboration was my red line. Everything I've seen since persuades me that the antisemitic crankery is not peripheral. It is central to who they are. Even with the best will in the world, there is no correcting that. It was worthwhile though. You have to go deep in to get an accurate reading on them.
Well…given the nature of political parties it’s all about who sensible, moderate nationalists form their coalition with. From the outside looking in it’s a choice between:-
Work slightly to the right of CivNats a la Heritage or who Reform were pretending to be (the issue with them isn’t their civic nationalism it’s the fact they’re fake).
Work to the left of the cranks, weirdos, incels etc who will always turn up in nationalist outfits. Any coherent, sensible policy will be under attack within minutes.
You need a ‘real centre-right’ to line up with, clearly the least worst of those options.
Trouble is…there currently isn’t one…
Relief you have left to be honest in the kindest way possible. Who gives a damn about Israel and jews. It's not callous but realistic.
You will never be able to call these 'conspiracy theorists' liars no matter how much you call them 'antisemitic'. You joined a party in England, why the fuck do you expect pandering to Israel and jews? You wouldn't expect Homeland to pander to the West Indian speckled hen would you? No Israeli party panders for the English. Most hate us.
If Homeland were half the party you describe them as, they might actually be the only truly non Zionist party, and thus a great candidate electorally.
You are what is wrong with 'English Nationalism', not it.
"You joined a party in England, why the fuck do you expect pandering to Israel and jews?"
I don't. But at the same time, I do not wish to be in the company of people who are absolutely consumed by hatred of Jews and addled with antisemitic conspiracy theories that lead them to absolutely retarded conclusions about every areas of policy. Since nationalism is a cesspit of antisemitism, I have no interest in it, and it will remain electorally insignificant.
Well that's very picky. Many in Nationalist circles have different views and ideas of many groups, yet if we all had that attitude of 'don't hate this specific group!' we wouldn't get anywhere. You have to just be in it for the greater good. Whether Nationalists hate Buddhists is irrelevant. I'd rather join a group that saves my people and who hates another group than have my people dead and not hating anyone
The problem with the Right, especially the online Right, is that it is filled with cranks and bad faith actors and they have been steering conversations online for years now. Any pretence of the "unite the Right" wishes of 2018-19 are now dead because the cranks, the authoritarians, the antisemites and the murder fantasists killed it. I have personally witnessed the dark tracks these cranks go down to the point that their claims of freedom, liberty and limited government are just lies to cover up what they really want which is authoritarian government by a "strong man leader" (but they won't say who that is) and elimination of the Jews and, like the radical Left, they advocate for "accelerationism" to end Western society so they can rebuild from the ashes. If there is to be a genuine, intelligent Right wing in this country, one that is rooted to a core ethos that isn't authoritarian, then a heck of a lot of gatekeeping the cranks out needs to happen and that is where the current Right fail.
You explain your position well and as you'll know my goals are to build a people's movement around The Harrogate Agenda's six demands and leave political parties, both big and small, new and old, well alone.
Well that’s buggered up my hopes for Homeland.
Having voted for Labour, Greens, Lib Dem’s, UKIP and wanting to vote for Reform, I was hoping to finally find a party that could warrant my vote.
Now you advise Homeland are more or less anti semites - well a significant proportion.
It doesn’t surprise me.
I suspect a goodly number of high level government/ establishment figures are anti Jewish too.
Nevertheless I was hoping Homeland could emerge as a siren serenading us with an enchanting manifesto.
Not to be I’m sad to say.
Peter, next time you daly with a political party could you make sure Ben Habib and Andrew Bridgen are part of it (yes I know they are both Tory’s by birth but good people nevertheless).
Perhaps if I pray for a good political party to emerge from this mess I’ll be rewarded.
I’ll give it a go - you can thank me later.
A great article - wish I could write like you.
I have the sane views on Israel (I'm a mama bear). I concur with your points on Iran too - the main exporters of global terrorism, terrorising their own citizens too.
My son gave me a white cap for my birthday - Make Britian Great Again.
What does that mean to me:
Free speech
Clean streets
Secure borders
Economic security and good management
A small, if any, budget deficit
An efficient NHS
Respect for tax payers money
Good education
Teaching children pride in themselves and their country
Supporting food security
Ensuring energy security without ruining arable land
Delivering major projects on time and on budget (HS2!)
No potholes
Equal opportunities for all - not just DEI
Competence is a key requirement (except in training roles or graduate entry)
Bursaries for critical skill shortages
Being a responsible global citizen, supporting just cause however not being the dumping ground of the world.